Hit Me Up

26 Dec 2024

Interview with Rowen D’Souza CEO and President of GLTA for LGBTIQA+ tennis (includes full transcript)

Sexuality, Sports & Recreation

LISTEN TO PODCAST NOW

Audio Player

00:00

Use Up/Down Arrow keys to increase or decrease volume.

Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 25:35 — 35.1MB)

Subscribe or Follow Us: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | RSS

Host Demetra Giannakopoulos interviews Rowen D’Souza, CEO and President of GLTA, which is the international LGBTIQA+ tennis organisation. Rowen is also the Founder of the Glam Slam, a tennis tournament celebrating the LGBTIQ community at the Australian Open. Rowen explains why the GLTA is important for queer participation in tennis and how it continues to make it inclusive for women and all genders in our community.

TRANSCRIPT

Uptempo dance song under a voiceover: Anyone for tennis? You’re with Demetra Giannakopoulos on Hit Me Up on JOY 94.9.

Host Demetra Giannakopoulos (DG): Our special guest today is Rowen D’Souza, who is the CEO and president of the GLTA, which is a worldwide LGBTIQA+ tennis organization. And Rowen is also the founder of the Glam Slam, which is played at the Australian Open each year. Rowen, welcome to Hit Me Up.

Guest Rowen D’Souza (RD): Oh, it’s great to be here. Thank you for hitting me up.

DG: (laughter) Any time. Now Rowen tell us about the GLTA. What do they do? Who are they?

RD: So the GLTA is a worldwide organization made up of nearly 100 LGBTQIA+ run tennis clubs around the world. And our function and our rationale is to organize events for LGBTIQA+ community around the world to play tennis. So it’s a very simple thing that brings people together using the glue of tennis, but creates social networks and people get to make friends, and people get to experience the joy of a sport in an environment that is tailored to our community.

So the rainbow community plays sport just like everyone else, and it’s really nice that we give them that opportunity to do so. Whether it be in countries where it’s very much legal and very much accepted, or even countries where it’s maybe a little bit hidden still, or it’s new or it’s different. The GLTA aims to bring people together through tennis.

DG: Tennis or sport is a competitive endeavor and I like to compete, but also the thing I love and I’m, I’m, I’m talking about tennis because that’s my sport. But I’m sure it’s the same for every other sport that the community of the sport whether you’re in a club or you turn up in a tournament.

How does that fit in with the GLTA? And is that something that is part and parcel of the GLTA, or do you have to, you know, constantly have a conversation about that with people who turn up for the tournament?

RD: The clubs actually form the voting members of the GLTA. So there are like a there are foundation and what it what was there were actually clubs, LGBTI people playing tennis and they organize themselves into clubs and then they’ve organized themselves further. The beautiful thing about GLTA events is no matter where you go in the world with one of the events that we sanction, there’s going to be a level of consistency.

We have a, we have a ranking system. We have a set of rules and bylaws. We have a set of norms that we have. So, you know, Iif you travel to America, if you travel to Japan, having a new tournament in Japan in March, if you travel to Majorca, if you travel to Oslo, if you travel to these places, you as an LGBTI person, if you are by yourself, you can actually know you’re going to find community because you have that foundation of the tournament.

So the tennis is the thing that grounds us and the clubs have started, you know, organizing these amazing events around the world. And then other, you know, smaller groups organize that as well. But I think it’s something that it’s it’s about connecting us all up. It’s creating a network that we can find a safe space wherever we go.

DG: How does it work? Is it like search a website to find like when tournaments are on?

RD: So I website, the GLTA.net has a list of all our tournaments, plus all the information about new events, existing events. You know it’s a it’s a it’s a website where we promote, the efforts of clubs around the world. Plus we have the tournament software where you can enter the the tournament itself. And it’s a great way.

And I know people watch this website very closely because anytime there’s a change, you know, we get messages and all this is exciting. [Okay.] Tell me more about this. So I know that there is a real hunger for, opportunities out there in our community. When we look at the Glam Slam, which we just opened a couple of weeks ago, we had over 200 players in the first two minutes entering our event.

We have more women than ever who have entered on the day of entry, and most of our events were full in 90 seconds. So what this says to me is that our community is really keen not just to go to pride with flags you know, those celebrations are but also participate and also compete in tennis. So, you know, it’s giving us this added element for engagement for our community, which is amazing, which is the thing that inspires me the most.

DG: Something that, you know, I really want to explore with, Hit Me Up is the community of tennis around the world, in the LGBTIQA+ community. And it’s like, you know, it’s communities within communities, isn’t it? And does the GLTA, interact with country bodies that, you know, I mean, beyond just the LGBTIQA community and what are those interactions like?

RD: Well, one of the main things that the GLTA really needs to do as an overall organization is to actually engage with the community on a wider scale. So our clubs don’t necessarily do that, particularly in countries where it’s still illegal, where, you know, there are countries where, it’s jailable and worse to be a part of our community.

But the GLTA overall is about engaging with the community because, I mean, were you there last year, you and I watched that. We at the event where we watched the wheelchair tennis? [YES] Was that you? That’s you know, that’s a great example about how diversity changes tennis.

DG: But the Australian Open is, you know, it’s so wonderful. It has, wheelchair tennis. And I think blind tennis as well, which is, super.

RD: So I’m going to use this example. People in wheelchairs were very much excluded from society for a whole range of reasons. Then when we came out to play tennis, people were playing tennis. And the game is developed to such a level that now when we watch, we think, this is amazing. I didn’t realize that the people in wheelchairs could play tennis.

Now, when you watch the wheelchair game, it’s a modified version of tennis, but it’s awesome. Absolutely awesome. So it gives you a different view of this community. And that’s the same thing with that community as well. A lot of people have a very fixed view of our community. But then, you know, when they see us play tennis, when they see us, engage in all sorts of elements of life.

It’s another way in which we grow our community. We foster what our community should be. We don’t need more division. We don’t need more people in little pockets and hiding away what we need is we need everyone to interact with each other and celebrate each other. And that’s what we’re trying to do, with tennis and certainly the national bodies.

Tennis Australia is a little bit ahead of the other bodies. Not because, I think it’s just because – the will is there and we get access at the Australian Open like it’s the only event, in the world where you play a tournament at a, at a Grand Slam and, you know, we get courts at a Grand Slam. So, you know, there are allocated courts for us and our community and they’re not easy to get.

So the international organizations, we have to engage with them. And the ones who, see our value will be including us because that’s part of community. We are part of community. You can you can’t deny that.

DG: Now let’s talk about, inclusive of all genders, because tennis is very gendered sport. But I say that with a qualification that we have had mixed doubles since the beginning of tennis, which has always been an opportunity of all of us playing together, literally. Yeah.

RD: Yeah, absolutely.

DG: How does the GLTA or your experience of the tournament set form part of the GLTA tour embrace gender diversity in the events and how is that dealt with?

RD: Well, one thing, before I answer that with tennis, I always remind people yes to mixed doubles. Absolutely. Also, women actually having, playing, tennis is it goes back a long, long way as well, like AFL(W) only started a few years ago. Also, we do have experience with, trans inclusion at tennis. So there was a player in the 70s who was, and I’m using this example as an inclusive example. There was a player called Renee Richards who, you know, went to the courts and was allowed to play as a trans woman in at the US open. And played a number of times, in fact tennis, has had this experience tennis is it’s one of those sports with excellent examples of inclusion and it’s actually fantastic what we do.

Sport is very gendered because that’s how it was set up. Organizations such as the GLTA pushing to make it less gendered or to find better nuances and to find better ways of actually, involving people who can play, who are, gender diverse. So in the GLTA, of course, we started off with men’s and women’s divisions as well. And the women’s divisions are always, have always unfortunately been smaller because participation of women does lag behind the participation of men. So what we decided to do, in the last couple of years, is actually change the name of our men’s division. We get rid of the men’s divisions and what we’ve called that is all gender. So no matter what gender you are, you can play in these divisions.

So everyone can play in the division. Now because women are underrepresented in sport. We felt it was very important that we that we have a space for women to play, and we we create an environment where women, still have their space. So women’s divisions, we still have. So at the Glam Slam what you’ll see is an all gender event. And that’s for everyone that singles doubles. And we have grades open today. And then you’ll also see the women’s events as well. And this is, this is a way in which we increase women’s participation. It’s working. We had more women enter on the day of registration than we’ve ever had before. And I think we’ll have we’ll have the biggest number of women’s events.

We always make sure that women are represented our final size. So we have the open singles final of the women’s event and also the open singles final of the all gendered events as well. We have. I don’t know if people noticed this, but next time look at the Glam Slam cups for the women’s ones bigger. We did that deliberately.

DG: Good.

RD: We did that deliberately. It’s the case. And I do see people go towards the bigger cup, but I’m like, oh, that’s the women’s.

DG: Oh that’s the amazing.

RD: Yeah, it’s a little it’s a little bit. It’s just, you know, to stir things up a little bit. But that’s something I find very.

Yeah I think it’s important. You know, we need to try and think of as many people as possible. We need to include as many people as possible. So I think this is a neat solution. And it’s something we’ve rolled out worldwide. There are restrictions in the software, the software that all people use. [indistinct] is gendered and they won’t change the gender identification just yet.

Tennis Australia is working on it. I know there are moves behind the saying that let them take their time, but it’s been six years now, but there are moves ahead to to allow greater gender identification. At the moment it’s only male or female, which, you know, it’s we are trying very hard to get that changed, but we are trying to get more people to play.

DG: I’m impressed that you’re calling that out. And to raise that yourself without being sort of raised by someone else because it’s these sort of intricate parts of experience with the world. Do I say microaggressions? If you experienced microaggressions throughout your day about gender, you know, and even that the question because I’m a she/her but I do notice if there are options for different genders, because that would indicate to me an organization that’s turning its mind to it because, you know, you want to be I want to live in an inclusive world, particularly now, where that’s really being challenged.

RD: The sad thing for us is that we have no option but to use the software. The software is exclusionary. And I want people, gender diverse people, to know that this is something we’ve been working very hard since 2018, since the Paris Gay Games, in fact, we’ve been, we’ve been advocating for the software people to change that.

Now, I don’t want to go into battle with them. They’re our partners. They have a limited view. You know, I don’t hate them, but they need to change. And we are doing what we can. And I do feel for them when they’re only offered the male and female, because that is a microaggression, that is saying you don’t belong.

I don’t want that to be the case. And if anyone does have that question, please message us. And we do get that every now and then. But we are working on it because sport is very gendered and unfortunately does take time to change. I’d love it for it to change already. It will change. But yes, you’re right, I’m putting it as a microaggression is actually a good way to. I think that’s calling it that for what it is.

DG: Coming back to details of entering. So how do you work out what level you are with the different grades?

RD: Okay. So that this is a this is a (laughter) really complicated matter. If you are having trouble with your division, the place that we have open, which is the highest level, you know, anyone can play in that level, but it’s not it’s the greatest expertise. But when you have D, it’s beginners and C is sort of intermediate beginners, Bs is more intermediate and A is high intermediate.

The reason we have the divisions is because the grammar time is very different to and LGBTI tournaments around the world are very different to sport traditionally. Another problem, exclusion problem with sport is that it’s elitist. [Yes.] So the Glam Slam is the only event at the Australian Open. It’s not just for the elites, it’s if you can pick up a racquet and you can play, you could be playing at the Australian Open, which is a unique opportunity during the Australian. In a couple of week’s time, you can literally pick up a racket a day before you enter, two days before the tournament starts. And you could be playing at the Australian Open. So we have people who are beginners and they’re included. We have people who are learning and progressing with their tennis journey.

They’re included the Australian Open. I think that’s actually quite a unique thing, but it’s also breaking down that barriers of people saying, this is what I hear all the time, I’m not good enough to play. Oh, I don’t have the skills. You don’t have to be good. It’s about joining, it’s about joining in. It’s about competing. It’s about having fun with people. And I like to see the different divisions mix.

I like to see people of different skill sets. I’m trying really hard. It’s all the same effort. Right? Like if you just pick up a so take the same amount of effort. So you know, Roger Federer, it’s the it’s the same. I think it’s a really unique opportunity that we’re giving people. And that’s something I’m very proud of.

DG: How do you interact with your tennis because you still play. You still play quite a lot. Why do you play tennis? I’ll simplify the question why do you play tennis, Rowen? For a very complex answer probably.

RD: No, no, I think that’s a very good question to ask is why do we play tennis? And I think the problem with that, the answering of that question is that our the elite nature of sport and professional sport, I think that actually, almost ruins, it could ruin the professionalism, can ruin tennis altogether. I think a lot of people will look at the professionals play and I can’t do that, so I can’t play.

I play tennis because I love it. And I love the feeling of on court, and I love just even how the ball travels through the air. It sounds weird, but when you see a shot that has beautiful shape, I get really excited, I love playing tennis. No, I’m not necessarily a competitive person. But I just love playing tennis.

And I love the sport. I think the the elite stuff does sort of actually exclude people. So, and it also, you know, I think I see this a lot with people and I’ve had this with myself is when I’m in a competitive environment, I get very down on myself because I get like I’m not good enough. Like and which is really weird.

And I think that’s one another thing with elite sport and tennis should be about winning. It’s not about winning, it’s not about being good. But that’s how we frame it. That’s what we get so down on ourselves, tennis is about just being there and having fun. I always stop myself and I, this is a little quirk I have wherever I’m playing around the world, and I’m very privileged and I’m very lucky to be able to do this.

I will stop and say, I’m playing tennis in Portugal. I’m playing tennis, you know, in in on the grass at Wimbledon. Now I get to play at the Australian Open. You know, I think we need to stop and think of the, the, the privilege and the it’s just incredible opportunities we have as opposed to making it too competitive like, you know, compete. But don’t that’s whether you win or not. It’s not the most important thing. I love it because it’s a beautiful game. It gives me an opportunity to connect with some amazing people and have some amazing opportunities. It gives you something to do as well. It keeps me occupied, which I need to be.

DG: With the GLTA what’s ahead? Like, what are some big picture goals for the GLTA moving forward yeah?

RD: There’s been massive growth up in the GLTA over the last two years, and I took over from a long serving president. So there’s an opportunity for, you know, at the changing of the guard. And also great. Plus, we were coming out of a pandemic, which suspended a lot of our events around the world. And it’s a time of great growth.

And so one of the things that that I’m very much focused on is managing that growth. So I really enjoy working with new groups, and I’ve dealt with quite a number in the last two years. As I mentioned before, Tokyo is coming on board and that’s a very interesting one. We have new tournaments in Oslo, Stockholm, Helsinki, Majorca, in the States, there’s been a number of new tournaments as well. [Railey] in South Carolina or North Carolina, one of the two, you know, just really amazing events. And so I think where to for the GLTA is this, this managed growth. And certainly I’m hoping there are tournaments, for example, in Africa, would be fantastic. Africa is an interesting continent. It’s not. We talk about Africa is one continent, but there’s there’s many different elements to it. More tournaments in Asia would be fantastic given the restraints, both cultural and legal, restraints in, you know, around the world. So I think the GLTA is about managed growth. It’s about getting more opportunities for people to play. Because here’s the thing.

Every time we put on a new tournament, they are filling. Now people are playing. People, we have more of a problem with waitlists than we do with, you know, empty tournaments with, with not enough people participating. We have more women’s events now. We have more women’s draws now. So it’s all about growth. It’s all about growth.

I’d love to get to a point where we can have separate gender diverse draws, if that’s necessary. I don’t know if people want, but let’s get to a point where if people say this is necessary, let’s get to a point where we have engaged and met as many enough gender diverse people to actually, you know, to make that viable.

There are a lot of volunteers, a very volunteer organization. I’m a volunteer as well, so there’s a lot of volunteers who are putting a huge amount of effort to to bring these opportunities to our community. So where the GLTA needs to go is to, to continue this, this growth, to give opportunities for people to play in some awesome events and meet some awesome people, around the world.

DG: Well, wonderful. I’m going to sort of come back to how you talked about the, events and the you had an all genders event in the in the Glam Slam for 2025 and a women’s separate draw. Is that the first time that’s been done for a GLTA tournament?

RD: No, I have had no agenda for the last couple of years. We’ve been introducing that, over the last couple of years and, you know, and just providing the rationale for that. And so I very much think that we need to move forward with consensus. I know that’s sometimes a bad word in our society is all about, you know, but consensus is really important.

So I really feel from a board level and from an organizational level, we all move forward with consensus. We all understand why, and we all agree. We all recognize that there are some things we have to change. But the reason we have brought in more gender is because we can expand the people that we say are welcome. So it’s not the first time, but it’s something that I emphasize with all the events. And diversity and inclusion means different things in different countries. So for example, if you’re on the Balkan states, we had a tournament in Belgrade a few years ago when I was looking over their budget their second biggest expense was security. So what they had to do was they had to, had to have security guards at the, at the entrances because they didn’t want, like, you know, protesters because that happened to could happen.

What happens is these groups in the Balkans and they target LGBTI stuff. So they have their flag budget was way down because I didn’t display any black. So with the money they saved on flags, they put it to secure.

[laughing]

DG: I’m laughing. I’m laughing ironically.

RD: Oh that’s it. It’s a very ironically it’s very ironic because I’m like, security, why do you need security? So for being diversity, inclusion is really just being about to play. So you’re not necessarily at the stage where they considering, you know gender diversity. They’re just making sure they survive. And that’s that needs to be supported. Until that gets to a point where they can start thinking about that.

But then the GLTA says, okay, but all our events are all gender. So for those people who aren’t necessarily thinking about gender diversity, they think about security and making sure that the right wing mob doesn’t attack their players, which can happen. But then at least that’s then that consistency. There is something that is on the radar and that gives them that scope to grow.

So I think that’s very, very important because it is different around the world. And I think there is some, for example, and I think I’ve said this to you before the GLTA can’t hold an event in Singapore because Singapore, though, it’s a democracy and it’s a country which we can all travel to. It still has colonial era laws on the, the, the statutes that would make the GLTA a foreign organization promoting homosexuality.

And that’s also culturally, people will lose their jobs if they are found that to be gay often. And that still happens. Let’s be realistic about it. That’s what happens. It’s not a criticism of anyone but that’ll happen because people are people. I’m not saying this is the government or any of that, but you know, it’ll happen. So we can’t have an event in Singapore, for example, at the moment, because now we need a local group to organize it.

Let’s hope that happens in the future. But at the moment it’s illegal we would like, the GLTA can’t function in that because we’ll be classed a foreign organization promoting homosexuality, and we carted off to jail.

DG: Is yeah, I mean, it is it is ironic. And and we come back to this separation between elite sports and grassroots community. Everybody else playing those sports at the elite sports, you know, rely on fans, etc. A lot of elite sports. And I, you know, mention that, you know, the WTA, I was in Saudi Arabia recently and like, there’s this sort of disconnect between or maybe not an understanding that there are countries where there have been, WTA or ATP tournament played where the everyday members of our community could, could get carted off to jail to play, you know, if they identified as LGBTIQ whilst they’re playing tennis, if I can put it that way.

DG: To wrap up this chat, is there anything else that you’d like to talk about regarding the GLTA or tennis as a community, or whatever else that comes to mind?

RD: Because it’s JOY. I always would like to encourage, any gender diverse and women out there to come and join us at the Glam Slam. It really is a unique event. And, if you want to play tennis and if you are tennis tragic like me and Demetra, but you don’t think that, you know, you didn’t realize that this was there. You don’t think there’s an opportunity for you to play, just get in touch, with us, and, we we know we can facilitate your entry into the Glam Slam. Or if you’re not, if you’re a tennis tragic, but you don’t play tennis, which they exist as well. Come and join us on the 26th, of January. So we’ll be, having our Glam Slam finals at court six, which was the, the court with the the bar that goes right up to the court.

DG: Oooh The party court!

RD: The party court. And that’s where we belong. It’s interesting because we were in we were in the sunken stadium, and that’s that spot that some people. And I was like, are you okay going to this court? I’m like, yes, because this is better for us. It’s it’s got the two bars, it’s got the viewing areas. It’s more of a party atmosphere.

It’s not your traditional – you’re sitting and your head’s moving. Right. We do have that on one side. If you if you’re a traditional and you want to sit with your head bobbing side to side to watch amazing matches, great. You can do that. But also you can join us at the bar. So it’s court six of the Australian Open on the 26th.

Look out for the Glam Slam tickets, on the website to come and join us. If you want to play, you can join us. For gender diverse and women particularly. We want to get more women playing. We want, you know, we want women to play. So there are women’s draws. We have quotas for women’s. All the all gender, drawers are full.

But we do have space for women. And we will keep those spaces open for as long as we’ve created a safe space for you to what you can get all the time you want, until the registration closes a week before the event to come and join us. But if you want to join us, join us at the Australian Open.

The Glam Slam is unique. That doesn’t happen anywhere else in the world. And you know, Melbourne is a world leader in so much, and the Glam Slam is one of those things as well. So please come and join us at the Glam Slam this year.

DG: If someone wants to find out more about the Glam Slam and particularly entering, what’s the website to do that?

RD: So the website you go to is tennis.com/ao-glam-slam.

DG: Fantastic Rowen, thank you so much for joining us on Hit Me Up.

RD: It was great to be hitted it up.

[laughter]

Audio Player